The Charges of ‘Fascism’ Against Donald Trump — An Attempt to Dialogue with a Socialist Commentator
I came across an article by Kitanya Harrison, who posed the question in her title, “Should You Wish a Fascist Well?” I responded with the following:
I would be interested to know why Trump is a Fascist? As far as I know Fascists and racists do not extend funding for black universities, neither do they lower the incarceration rates of black men (1994 Crime Bill), nor improve the job prospects for black communities, pre-Covid. Trump is a racist or Fascist because….?
When Biden said that you ain’t black if you can’t choose whether to vote for Trump or not; or when Kamala Harris lambasted Biden for his racism around the issue of busing, Biden is not a racist because…?
Reply from ‘Larry’ — A Commentator
As I mentioned earlier in response to another’s comment, http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm has a good definition of fascism based on Umberto Ecco and Lawrence Britt’s work. When you look at these 14 points, Trump does come across as a classic fascist in the same mould as Galtieri, Mussolini, Berluscone, Peron and Franco
My Responses
Many thanks Larry. I have read your comments to other article writers and commentators. I understand you are a scientist, which is great. I look forward to engaging with someone like yourself, who has critical thinking at his disposal.
I have looked at the 14 criteria for Fascism, set out in the Liberty Forum by Dr. Lawrence Britt, when he examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. These would be my responses as someone who is not a Trump supporter yet:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism — Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Reply: Flags and symbols do appear in Socialist or Communist regimes too. Flag symbolism and patriotism are universal. I have seen Democrats, as well as Republicans use the American flag as a sense of pride. I recall during the general elections in the UK, the left-leaning Labour Party used the British flag in their conventions; so did our Party (Conservative Party). The Soviet Union took pride in their flag, as does China. They were or are Communist/Socialist in political structure, although the economies now are Capitalist.
Flag waving and symbols are not the only remit of Fascists. So, why is Trump an outlier here?
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights — Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Reply: Human rights violations are universal unfortunately. I have not heard Trump say that human rights can be ignored. A recent Federal execution that did take place under Trump’s administration was of the white supremacist murderer, Daniel Lewis Lee. Do you agree or disagree with this? With regards to incarcerations, Trump did reduce incarcerations of black men. Bill Clinton did admit that the 1994 Crime Bill (which led to increased incarcerations of black men) was a mistake. As far as I know, President Trump has not ordered any assassinations other than Al-Baghdadi, the ISIS leader. Let’s not forget that President Obama had Bin Laden killed too. Obama has never been described as a Fascist, so why is Trump when you consider the above?
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause — The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Reply: When did Trump say that ethnic or religious minorities were enemies? He did condemn terrorists (e.g. ISIS, Al-Qaeda, extremism), but so did Obama, Bush, Clinton etc. The fact that Communists or Socialists are treated as foes is not unique to Trump. America under the Democrats and Republicans have always competed with the USSR and Communism. The Democrat President, J.F. Kennedy nearly went to war with the USSR during the Cuban Missile Crisis in the 1960s. Did Kennedy have Fascistic tendencies because of his imminent threat to the Soviet Union? Even the UK under Conservative’s Margaret Thatcher and under Labour’s Tony Blair were not considered Fascist, even though they were anti-Socialist. Tony Blair dumped a lot of his party’s Socialist principles in order to get elected in 1997. Was he a Fascist? No. So, why is Trump and outlier here?
Let us not have collective amnesia about Vladimir Lenin and his ‘Red Terror’ campaign against his opponents in the USSR during the Russian civil war in 1918; where state security services were used as part of the repression. A propaganda poster stated, “Death to the Bourgeoisie and its lapdogs. Long live Red Terror.” Lenin’s successor, Joseph Stalin had his own version of Marxism when he, too, unleashed a campaign of terror known as, the ‘Great Purge’ and ‘Dekulakization’, which saw executions, mass arrests, religious persecution, forced labor and concentration camps known as ‘gulags’. Fascism and Communism/Marxism/Stalinism seem to be two sides of the same coin.
4. Supremacy of the Military — Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Reply: Creating strong military is not just the remit of Fascist states. Hitler, Mussolini, Galtieri etc. were mentioned at the beginning. It is surprising that Lenin and Stalin were not mentioned. As mentioned in no. 3 above, they, too, were dictators and had a strong military and security apparatus. The Soviet Union had massive military firepower and became one of the global superpowers because of it in the late 20th Century. China and India are on their way to achieving military might. Are they Fascist states? You may recall the five-day ‘Vostok 2018’ military exercises between Russia and China, which was bigger than ‘Zapad 81’ where the USSR engaged in massive military manoeuvres in Eastern Europe in 1981. They sent a clear message to the US of their military might. Ok, they were boys playing with their big toys in order to show off their muscles. Vostok 2018 showcased the Russian-Chinese military prowess, but I never heard of them being described Fascist. I am not indicating that you support Socialism or Communism. In fact, you have criticised the Soviet propaganda machine when they used ‘whatabouttery’ in order to justify their controversial actions.
On 20th September 2020, Trump accused military generals of wanting to fight wars to keep weapons manufacturers happy. He clashed with Pentagon leaders. He also started pulling out troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. As far as I know, he did not start a new war. Previous Democrat and Republican presidents did preside over controversial wars. Soldiers and military personnel are treated as heroes by all parties in all countries. In fact, during the Presidential debate when Joe Biden mentioned his late son, Bau, who served in the military, Trump should have thanked Bau for his services. Praising the sacrifice that soldiers make in their line of duty is not Fascism. Every year on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month (November), Armistice Day is observed in the UK which commemorates fallen soldiers during World War 1. Two minutes of silence is observed. VE (Victory in Europe) Day is also commemorated in relation to World War 2. The fallen soldiers are not glamorized, they are respected because they sacrificed their lives to combat Fascism. How does Trump fit in to point no. 4?
5. Rampant Sexism — The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
Reply: I agree with the abortion bit. But being Pro-Life is not a Fascist ideology. It is to do with the abuse of human rights (point no.2 above). Leaving this aside, where did Trump suppress divorce or homosexuality? Conservatives believe in minimal state interference. So, the state would not guard the family institution, communities would. And what is wrong with the family institution? Why is this Fascist? How does Trump fit into all this?
Speaking of sexism, you will agree that sexual harassment and abuse are the worst forms of sexism that men can inflict on women. I take the point that Trump was awful in 2005 when he told Billy Bush that he would like to grab the private part of the actress, Arianne Zucker. Here is the problem. Trump fantasized in 2005 what Joe Biden actually did in 1993 when he allegedly penetrated Tara Reade with his fingers. Let’s call this ‘digital rape’. There is stoned silence among the Democrats on this issue, who are not supporting Tara Reade, and have certainly let down Christine Blasey Ford by ditching her after the Kavanaugh hearings in 2019. Using no. 5 as a criteria, then the charge of Fascism applies to Biden more than it does to Trump. Why is Trump an outlier here?
6. Controlled Mass Media — Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Reply: How and where does Trump control the mass media? CNN and CNBC are the only American channels we get in the UK (and C-Span for a few hours on Sunday). Fox News was taken off the air a few years ago after Rupert Murdoch sold Sky TV. When I watch CNN, it is replete with anti-Trump opinions. If Trump controlled the mass media, why hasn’t he shut down CNN and arrest Jake Tapper, Don Lemon, Chris Cuomo and Erin Burnett, who continuously accuse Trump of lying? He does not control the media. But rather, the media can manipulate opinion (whether the right or left) and is not under the control of the President. How does Trump control mass media and censor them?
7. Obsession with National Security — Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Reply: National Security and fear may go hand in hand. But National Security became important after the 9/11 attacks under President Bush and his adviser, Condolezza Rice. Were they Fascists? Why hasn’t the USSR or China been mentioned as having extensive and formidable security apparatus? Why is Trump an outlier here?
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined — Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
Response: The US Constitution gives rights to all religions. Having a Christian foundation as laid out by the Founding Fathers, no Christian sect has priority over another. America was founded on the principle that God’s Providence does not come through the British Royal Family, it comes directly to people. Judeo-Christian values (in parallel with Islamic values and similar values from other faiths) are the foundations of America. This does not mean Fascism unless you imply that God is a Fascist. God is certainly not a Marxist because Karl Marx opined that religion was the opiate of the masses. All American Presidents have chanted, ‘God Bless America’. I recall Barack Obama quoting a passage from the Bible a few years ago. They are not Fascist, so why is Trump, in the context of religion? What are your thoughts on the USSR promoting Atheism and oppressing religious minorities? Or China’s oppression of the Uighur Muslims? Those states are not Fascists, so how do we describe them? This is not Soviet-style ‘whatabottery’, I am highlighting a contradiction in your line of thinking.
9. Corporate Power is Protected — The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Response: Which business or industry put Trump in the White House? If I recall, he put up his own money during the 2016 campaign. Business relations with government is not a function of Fascism. The (South) Korean business conglomerates known as ‘Chaebols’ had very close relations with the government. Both benefited. Now, many Korean firms have become successful multinationals. South Korea is a rising tiger nation and a success story. Where does Fascism fit in? The irony of ironies is this. The far left activists want to bring down the very Capitalist corporations that donated $1bn to combat racism in the US. I would like to know how the money has been spent. If criteria no. 9 insinuates that Capitalist corporations are the problem here, how are they linked to Fascism? Capitalist corporations have donated money to the Republicans and Democrats. Should both parties therefore be classified as Fascist? Which business aristocracy made Trump President?
10. Labor Power is Suppressed — Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Response: I agree that labor unions are not encouraged and may be suppressed. But this is not a function of Fascism. Economies that run on free market principles are not Fascist. They are Capitalist. There is a difference. Whilst unions may be looked down on in Capitalist systems, they still exist. What is more important is that unionisation is not the only form of representation of workers. I have worked for three American multinationals. Unions don’t exist in these organisations. They don’t need to. Why? Because employee engagement can still take place without the need for formalised unions. The old confrontational nature between unions and the ‘bourgeois’ management disappears when all employees have a stake in the organisation. During the 1997 UK General Election, I attended a meeting organised by the local Labour Party. The Socialist audience and a Labour MP criticised the Conservative government’s privatisation programmes. One woman stood up and said that under Socialism, workers own the means of production; that they have a stake. I was going to correct her. In hindsight I should have, despite being the only Conservative in the room. The claim that workers own and run companies under Socialist principles is the greatest illusion that Socialism has demonstrated. Workers do not have a stake in the companies they work for. The companies would be nationalised, which means the GOVERNMENT or the STATE owns the firms, NOT workers. The Socialist vision of ownership of companies by workers can be elegantly realised through the Capitalist principles of share ownership. Anyone can be a shareholder and can collectively influence decision-making at board level. State-owned firms would not afford these luxuries to their workers. How has Trump attacked workers and employees?
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts — Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
Response: When did Trump express disdain for the Arts and higher education? Which professors and academics have been arrested by the Trump administration? Trump did extend funding for HCBUs (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) and support the Schools Choice program to help underprivileged children attend charter schools or private schools. Ethnic minorities that lag behind would benefit from this. This is similar to the UK Conservative Government’s ‘Assisted Places Scheme’ during the 1990s, where bright children from poor families could attend private schools through a voucher scheme. It gave choice to parents to send their children to private schools of their choice. One of my friends told me that he was a beneficiary of the Assisted Places Scheme which helped him to attend a private boarding school. He then went on to attend a good university and subsequently worked for top consulting firms. I am proud of his achievement. Unfortunately, the scheme was abolished by the Labour Government in the late 1990s. Here is a stark contrast between Conservatives and Socialists. Conservatives will offer a helping hand so that people can progress and succeed on their own, whereas Socialism seeks to keep poor people equally poor and dependent on the state. Back to Trump. How does he fit in to criteria no. 11?
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment — Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Response: This applies to America how? The police in the US have always had powers regardless of who has been President. Don’t police in communist or Socialist countries have massive powers? China comes to mind. Why isolate Fascists? And why isolate Trump, especially when he said that there needs to be police reform after the tragic murder of George Floyd? In America, people are not often willing to overlook police abuses. Many such police officers do get charged.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption — Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Response: How has Trump stolen national resources and treasures? How does the initial part of the criteria apply to Trump when some of his appointed associates later criticised him (Michael Cohen, Anthony Scaramucci, Michael Wolff etc.)?
14. Fraudulent Elections — Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Response: Smear campaigns happen on both sides. Charging Trump with white supremacy or Fascism is a massive smear, given that he does not seem to have fulfilled the 14 criteria laid out. Neither Trump nor any other President had control over political district boundaries. Do you believe Trump is manipulating the media? If so, how? The way I see it from the UK, it is the other way round. The mainstream media, like CNN, lambasts Trump at every opportunity. How does Trump manipulate CNN? Elections in the US are not controlled by presidents. How is Trump using the judiciary to manipulate the upcoming elections?
Conclusion
Back to you Larry. You did cite the ’14 criteria for Fascism’ website a few times when you responded to other commentators who questioned the claim of Trump’s Fascism. You diligently erased the word, ‘nutter’ in my case when you pasted the same paragraphs from similar responses to Trump supporters. I thank you for this. It means we can have a good basis to engage in fruitful debate and dialogue. Looking at the 14 criteria for Fascism that Lawrence Britt laid out, you stated, ‘Trump does come across as a classic Fascist.’ I have responded to each and every criteria. I would like to know your thoughts on my initial response where I stated the racism that Joe Biden demonstrated. And why an apparent Fascist like Trump, would implement policies to empower black America. I believe there is a 15th criteria for Fascism, and that is Anti-Semitism or hatred of Jews (as well as non-whites). We can agree on this. Again, Trump beats the odds here. He was able to achieve two peace deals between Israel and its Arab neighbors, the UAE and Bahrain. If he was a Fascist, he would have armed the Arab nations to the hilt and drive out the Jews to the sea. Remarkable isn’t it?
I liked your invocation of ‘Hitchen’s Razor’ in a comment you made elsewhere. The late Christopher Hitchens stated, ‘what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.’ Allow me to metamorphosise ‘Hitchen’s Razor’ to ‘Hasan’s Razor’. This is where I state, ‘what you have asserted without evidence, I have dismissed WITH evidence.’ Over to you now Larry. I look forward to further engagements.
[After repeated requests for responses, the dialogue ended].
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Disclaimer: The views expressed are mine only and do not belong to the company I work for or the political party I belong to.
Author Biography
Hasan Ali Imam was born in Bangladesh in 1972 and brought up in the UK. He has engaged in respectful debate and dialogue with those which disagree with him, which culminated in his candidacy for the British Parliament in 2005. He continues to be involved with the UK Conservative Party in his spare time whilst working for a multinational corporation. Hasan has also been involved with the UK Government’s PREVENT counter terrorism strategy as a trainer to public servants on how to prevent young people from venturing into extremism. He also draws on his own experience of attempted recruitment by extremist groups in the 1990s. Hasan has authored three books.
Firstly, ‘United States of Anger — Why Linda Sarsour’s Rage and Far Left Violence Cannot Move Mountains.’ This book is a response to Linda Sarsour (an American Palestinian Socialist activist), and her far left compatriots who supported the violence and rampage that took hold in the US after the tragic killing of George Floyd.
Secondly, ‘BAME — Breaking Through Barriers.’ This book deals with the race space in the UK. It responds to critics who state that ethnic minorities have not progressed due to institutional racism. He tackles the issue head on and invites critics to dialogue and debate. This book was praised by the British Government.
Thirdly, ‘Aisha and Fatima — Ladies of Heavan. A Sunni Response to Shiaism.’ This is specific to the main Islamic sects of Sunni and Shia. The book captures dialogues that Hasan (a Sunni) had with Shia Muslims over the last 20 years.
A fourth book project is under way, entitled, ‘Why the Far Right are Far Wrong.’ Yes, you guessed it. It includes responses to the Far Right and dialogue with some of its members.
Hasan has also written an article on ‘Medium.com’ to challenge the anti-vaccine narrative from his own Conservative side, including Dr. Simone Gold in the US, and has invited dialogue and debate with anti-vaxxers. He has also engaged in dialogue with and Israeli Jew and an anti-Israeli Muslim on the State of Israel and the importance of Jews, Christians and Muslims to unite under the Abrahamic brotherhood.
